The wolf of the North...
Interview with Varg Vikernes
"Descent" magazine (#1, May, 1994), by Steve O'Malley

Ahhhh... Burzum... I have to say that this is one of my favorite bands. Burzum is the spawn of the infamous Varg Vikernes, also known to some as Count Grishnackh... this band has remained a one-piece since it's cooperation in 1991, although Samoth, of the mighty Emperor, did play bass for a time during the "Aske" (the band's second release) period. It is amazing that one man can write such emotional, mystic, and powerful material... the songs have a majestic and even royal sound in places... proud music for true heathens. "Hvis Lyset Tar Oss", Burzum's fourth album, has just been released by the newly-formed Misanthropy Records of England. It once again shows that much more can be molded from this musical style than the critics ever thought... an epic release, that is for sure. Hail Burzum!!

Hello again, Varg. How are you this evening?

Alive 'n thriving as yet.

Okay, let's drive right into it. You have informed me in your letters that you are an Odinist. I am curious, when you first heard about Odinism did you have an immediate attraction to it?

My heathendom is and has always been within me. Odinism is not a fixed religion; it's a way of life I have always been living, though not always conscious of it. My heathen consciousness didn't come over a short period of time. Such things develop slowly.

You are a man of pure Viking blood. Why were you misled by Satanism and occult subjects for so long? It seems Odinism would hit closer to home, wouldn't it?

I have never been misled by Satanism and Occultism; heathendom is both. Odin is my father and he is an opponent of the Christian "God". In Hebrew "Satan" means an opponent. Thus is Odin Satan. The one-eyed Satan of the North. That makes me a Satanist as I follow my father. Of you study my symbolism, you find the Hakenkreuz (swastika) and the one-eye. No pentagrams nor any inverted crosses that so many believe is Satanism. Maybe it is, but nor for me. I am a Northman with symbols of the North. Alas, for many those are well hidden.

When you think of such gods as Odin, Frey, and Thor, do you think of them as actual beings who exist, or do you regard them as some sort of force or energy, whether inside you or in the world around you?

They are not "gods" but aces. They are the archetypes of the Northern race. Thus within me. They're the names we gave to what once was so that our posterity should never forget. Alas, only a few of us remember, and we always will. I will never forsake my forefathers, my nature, or myself. And truly this is what heathendom is – our nature.

You have also mentioned that you do not see these same gods as "good" or "evil" a more realistic way of viewing things, in my opinion. What has led you to coming to this conclusion?

I am indeed evil in the eyes of Christians. But as you say, there is no evil. When studying my own tongue, I found that we had no word for evil before the Christians came to our lands, desecrating our soil with their foul arts. We had only words for good and bad. We might be merciless, brutal or whatever, but it's not evil. For some it is bad, for others good. Evil is a Christian word, and it's as unreasonable as the religion it comes from. Still, I am evil for them. Let them degenerate with their infant stupidities. I will evolve with the laws of nature. There is always a good in anything bad.

How much does the average Norwegian know about Odinism? Is it accepted as a "religion" there, or is the common attitude that it is merely "history" (that Vikings just sailed around, conquered, etc., but it is a thing of the past) without seeing the true sense of spirit behind it all?

We all learn about the Christian interpretation of the heathendom making it "mythology". More and more waking up from the sleep of idiocy and following their nature. By showing my interpretation to the people, I light the heathen fire in their souls. It's inevitable, because it's our archetypes. Odin wins.

Are you in contact with other well-known Odinists, such as Johnny Hedlund of Unleashed and Quorthon of Bathory? What do you think of what they're trying to do?

I haven't noticed them doing anything at all really. I think they're too influenced by the Christian version of heathendom. Still, they're worth supporting. No, I have no contact with them. I prefer action to words, so far I have heard only words from them. Of course, I have never taken any action either. Ha Ha!

You have been a target of many accusations of Nazism. What does the swastika mean to you? What do you have to say to these accusers?

They manifest their lack of knowledge about me and my symbolism. Also, usually the same people haven't the slightest idea of what Nazism is really all about, so how can they tell if I am a Nazi or not? I really don't care about what people say or call me. I am what I am. A true Northman... Nothing can change that. The swastika is the hammer of Thor, cleaving through all darkness of matter. The mightiest weapon. With it we shall crush the skull of the Christian "God" and his inept people. Alas, I am no Nazi. I am a Hvite Aryan Odinist!! Call me whatever you want. I shall only stand proud. I take it as a compliment when called a Nazi. For I would rather be a Nazi than a ludicrous democratic forsaker of my own race!

Also, a few record labels have dropped interest in Burzum because of your supposed Nazi beliefs. Seems like those labels are bowing to the great "politically correct" corporate cack, and wimping out to me. (Your reaction/thoughts on this).

Political correctness seems to be very important these days, at least that's what people believe. In truth nobody cates. The labels who "lost" interest in Burzum were afraid of being boycotted by their distributors. Today I have a splendid deal with an Anglo-Saxon label named Misanthropy Records, and we haven't noticed any boycotts thus far! The labels never wimped because they never got high enough to be able to go lower. Wimps can't wimp. Dedicated to Candlelight and Earache Records from the once proud Britain!!! Let them continue with their conservative clichéd acts. The ludicrous punks live on.

Do you see and feel a real tension building up from within the Norse people, especially the young, against modern Christianized society and government? When do you think this tension will snap and what will be the results, Varg?

I know not what will happen. But indeed, there is a tension building up within us Norsemen. The fall of "God" and his effete people is at hand. The reconquest has begun. We will win or die in the attempt. The war against the forsakers of Odin has begun. Scandinavia is OURS!

You speak of a reorganization of the Norse forces, in which the mighty one-eyed "Satan" (Odin) won over the Christian "Satan". Please explain this and who the new forces are today.

The police made a chaos in the scene. They scattered our army. These are months to retain order and discipline. The new forces are the same as before with some losses, but absolutely with a lot of gains. We are stronger than ever.

In our letters, you asked me why no one ever asks about the "outer" circle. Okay, who were the "outer" circle and what was their purpose? (In regard to "inner" leadership)

What I meant was that all Norwegian black metal bands get the title of inner circle band. Obviously, they can't be! For would it then be an inner circle if over two dozen bands are a part of it? The inner circle is the trinity of kings; all the others are "outer circle" bands. The kings are the three first. Demonaz of Immortal, Fenriz of Darkthrone and Grishnackh of Burzum!

What has become of these members since Euronymous' death? Has the unity been lost, or have they split off into many factions?

Euronymous' death was nothing but timely and gain for us. The unit is both weakened and strengthened since half a year ago. We have lost the weak and strengthened the rest. If anybody rebels against our rule, we will crush them.

It seems Euronymous' death sent out a spark which lit an inferno of new, black, pagan groups (Gorgoroth, Manes, Hades etc.) in Norge. Where do such groups stand in your opinion?

All the bands you mentioned here started up a long time before the death of the Red Rat. I wonder why the hell people believe Norway cares about his death? We had jokes about him as early as 1991! "Funeral Fag" and such. (Perversion of the song title "Funeral Fog" of Mayhem). He was a fucking faggot! Euronymous died in his fucking underwear trying to run away from his killer(s), screaming like a fucking hysterical woman. (Police told me. He he!) I think that was proof enough of him being a wimp! A real man would have died fighting, not running away. Survival of the fittest. Well, back to the question. I ignore all bands but those who support me. Then I support no matter when they were formed.

You are in prison now, correct? What charges have been filed against you? What do you expect the trial on April 18, 1994 to conclude about those charges?

Ay, I'm in jail (custody). I am not sure, really, I haven't talked with the police at all, this I know very little for sure. I am charged with 1^st degree murder on the homo-wimp-Euronymous. Four cases of making churches into piles of ashes. One attempt of such, theft and storage of 150 kg of dynamite, two grave desecrations, and 5-6 burglaries. There is also possession of illegal arms. Some more burglaries, some more grave desecration, racist utterings, blasphemous utterings and some other shit coming up as charges. I will be found guilty and theft and storage of 150 kg of dynamite, possession of illegal arms, and some burglaries, of these charges. The trial will also conclude that the police have made a big shit in their pants concerning the arson and murder rap. Time shall tell! (Incidentally... at press time Varg has pled guilty to the murder charge!!??!?... in self-defense. He still has denied the arson charges however –ed.)

I also hear you are a big Destruction fan. Do you still appreciate such classic black acts as Destruction, Venom, Hellhammer/Celtic Frost, and, of course, Bathory? And how much do you draw upon such acts for inspiration today?

Well, a big Destruction fan is an exaggeration, I like the "Infernal Overkill" album, but none of the others. Hellhammer and Celtic Frost have some listenable music. But Venom sucks. Bathory is without any doubt the origin of Norse black metal. The king of Norse heathen bands. We – Immortal, Darkthrone and Burzum – are the second wave of heathendom. Bathory the first. My one and only inspiration to continue with Burzum is the spirit of the Vikings. The Norwegian nature. Still, I cannot deny that the subjective components of the ektopsychic functions are a part of my artistic creativity. Thus great music is an inspiration whether I want it or not.

I see a great amount of similarity at times between your music and classical music. Do you have an appreciation and interest in this style of music?

The similarity of the monotonousness which is present in Burzum and some classical music, but also the melancholy. Still, I'm not particularly into classical music. Some Grieg and Tchaikovsky, but little else. The monotonousness and melancholy of Burzum in mainly from acts as modern electronic music, like Software, When, and underground techno.

From what I understand, Burzum hasn't played live often, if not ever. Any plans to do so pending the result of your trial in April. Describe the perfect Burzum performance.

Maybe a promotion tour, but no gigs. The perfect Burzum performance is no performance. Burzum is definitely music for solitude. It is not music for crowds. Well, maybe it is? But I dislike gigs vehemently. So there won't be any, unless I change, though.

Your lyrics... what to say... a blend of poetic misery and tales mixed with insight into your thoughts. What topics do you delve into on "Hvis Lyset Tar Oss" and "Filosofem"? How important are the lyrics in your music?

The concept on "Hvis Lyset Tar Oss" is elucidation of a new moral unknown to the ludicrous Christians. They don't get it that their "warmth and light" is nothing but hell for me and my brethren. "If the light takes us" is like a bugbear. Let it not take you – that's the concept. "Filosofem" is a disparaging assertion proposed in a philosophical erudite language. A continuance of "Hvis Lyset Tar Oss" and the other, earlier albums. It's all about Burzum/Dunkelheit/Darkness as some view it. Burzum is the arrogant boasting spirit of the Vikings.

Your music holds a very strong sense of sadness and despair, yet at the same time gives a feeling of a warrior's song. What are some of the things that inspire you to compose this way?

I don't decide the path of musical creation. The music is a reflection of my own self. As simple as that. Or, let's say, my reflections of my own surroundings. A hypocrite Christian Norway with heathen archetypes.

Why have you kept Burzum primarily a one-man effort instead of expanding into a full band?

I'm egoistical, intolerant, individualistic, and have some bad habits. Like ending up in jail from time to time. As a one-man band, I can continue any way.

A while back the news of the church burnings in your country began to spread throughout the scene. What do you think the purpose of doing this was? Do you really believe that this would start a war with Christianity?

Imagine the U.S. if one percent of all churches were burned. That's what happened in Norway. A dozen churches in Norway is one percent. What would happen if one thousand churches burned in the U.S.? That's about one percent, right? It might not be a state of war, but indeed it's a clear statement of what somebody doesn't like. All wars have a different scale. Our war is not as noticeable as a war between nations, still it's war. The situation in Norway is as if a thousand churches had burned in the U.S... DESPAIR.

On this same topic, your "Aske" mini-album had a photo of the remains of a torched church upon the cover and the release came with a metal lighter. What was the purpose and thought behind this?

The cover of "Aske" is a hymn to church burning. It shows the remains of the first church that was burned in Norway after "the gathering of black metal". The metal lighter was a childish PR stunt by my former utterly incompetent label Voices of Wonder. I had nothing to do with it and they did it without asking me about it.

What do you think of non-Norse black acts? Any favorites? Do you see black metal becoming a "trend" just as death metal did few years back? (Which is the whole reason the Norwegian black scene emerged, because you guys were so sick of bands playing trendy death metal and decided to go back to your roots, correct?)

Death metal was a ludicrous vegetable, peace and love trend. Black metal is a gathering of the heathen forces. Thus a very useful trend. The more going fanatic "black metal" the better. We rage war, remember? To crush the fucking skull of "God"!!! Make war not love. VON of San Francisco is incredibly great (How true... - ed.) (VON means "hope" in Norwegian, by the way). I'm very ignorant and don't even know half of the Norse bands. I listen to very few bands and that's enough.

You have also appeared in "Kerrang!" magazine (the British metal publication) several times. Why the decision to do so? To help spread the word of the Northern tribes to a larger audience? Have these appearances helped or hurt the Norse bands?

"Kerrang!" has, in spite of their erroneous interpretation of our erudition, given fuel to the heathen fires all across Europe by showing them a Norse scene. True Norse. "Kerrang!" doesn't need my permission to print anything about me. They get pictures from the photographers and information from the journalists in Norway (or from other people if necessary). The bad thing about it is the erroneousness of their work and the fact that most bands mentioned by "Kerrang!" as "inner circle" bands in truth have nothing to do with us at all.

Thank you for answering this interview, my friend. Any last words to the "Descent" readers?

Strife is evolution. Peace is degeneration. Make war, not love.

Author: Steve O'Malley (© 1994 "Descent" magazine, USA)