Into The Lion's Cage
Interview with Varg Vikernes
"Sounds Of Death" Magazine (#5, 1995), by Stephen O'Malley
The following interview, conducted by Taoiseach Steven O'Malley, editor of "Descent Magazine", is presented here completely uncut and uncensored so that you the reader may form your own opinion about Count Grishnackh without the intrusion of our editorial comments (even though we think he's a bit of an egoistical wacko).
You claimed self-defense as a plea in the trial this spring, yet Euronymous suffered more than twenty knife wounds... A bit curious for self-defense don't you think? Was it (his passing) a loss?
The plea was partial self-defense, not self-defense. Anyway he in-tended to kill me, so killing him was in a way self-defense, partially. Aye, more than twenty wounds, but not all of them were knife-wounds. Over half of the wounds were caused by fragments of glass, which he fell into a pile of. So it is all simply blown out of proportion by the horror stories of the police, to make me look bad. Judeo-Christian mendacious propaganda.
If his passing was a loss? How can you ask? Of course not... Nobody needs weaklings or failures. Let them perish, they are a disgrace to our race.
And now the sentence is 21 years... A result of an obviously highly biased trial... Such is the price paid for publicity, right? Why did you (and do you) seek such exposure in the press? It has caused you more harm than help, hasn't it?
This is wrong. I have done one interview for a local newspaper and turned down all the other media who wanted to do an interview. The only interviews I do are for underground magazines and other magazines dedicated to music or heathendom. The press has exposed me and of course without asking for my permission to do so. I only made the ball start rolling!
The highly biased trial was biased because of my highly "fiendish" views. The mother-pig system does not tolerate that people have other views than they themselves have. I paid the price it cost to utter these "fiendish" views in public. Your views on this are those made by the press of the Judeo-Christian system in the first place, so do think twice before you swallow what they have to say. It is nothing but mendacious propaganda meant to twist the truth.
In the end that twisted exposure can, and will, be turned into our best with some cunning schemes, but today it is more harm than help. It is simply to "twist the picture back into the right picture." Turn their own weapons against them.
Now the Norse forces are splitting... The old brotherhood is lost. Is this a bad thing for you? Or a gain?
What old brotherhood? What Norse force? The only brotherhood and Norse force ever existing in our scene are those forming now as a result of what I did. The Black Circle only existed in theory, and in practice by me pushing along a handful of losers in casual attacks on Judeo-Christian sites. The others would have done nothing if I alone had not pushed them into doing it. So what brotherhood? What Norse force? Give me a break!
Now I'll ask you a bit upon the subject of the heathen brotherhood, Cymophane. Your interests seem to have only recently fallen upon your Nordic heritage/traditions; how serous are you about this?
Recently my interest in "Norsedom" has been revivified. For half a decade, before the year 1992 A.Y.P.S., when my main interest was Satanism, I have been involved with Norse activity. Like I was a National Socialist and a skinhead until I was sixteen years old, this includes study - or let us call it "interest in" - Norse mythology, genealogical research, and Norse-Germanic traditions. Both "Norsedom" and occultism have been my interests since I was only 12-13 years old. To call my interest "recently arisen" will be rather wrong, would you not say? Recently revivified is correct. So, to your question... I am dead serious. Just ask Euronymous!
When speaking of your "gods" you seem to have more of an atheist view of things, with these "gods" being more symbolic than physical beings. To you who or what is Wotan? A piece of yourself?
Actually my views of the Æsir and Vanir are quite diverse. I want the exoteric view to be more symbolic, but the esoteric is another question. Before people know fully the exoteric ways, they can no possibly understand my esoteric views. So I let them know what they can grasp in order to avoid distrust and further confusion.
To me Wotan (Odhinn, Wodan) is everything. I am sure this did not enlighten you very much, but there is not much else to say. Wotan is the Fimbul-Thulr of Oskoreien! (Das Wutende Heer!) Pardon my arrogance but you have to be able to crawl before I can teach you to walk and run. Copy?
Ah, Wotan is our king and father, Hill auk Sæl!
As for the northern Pagan beliefs, I find their legends and stories to be extremely interesting... And applicable to ones everyday life. Which is your favourite legend, or rather, which legend do you identify the most with?
The "Mimes Bronn" (Mime's Well) tale shows clearly the quintessence of Heathendom. So I hold that one high. But all of them reveal something valuable to us, so...
As for Cymophane, all are not Nordic, yet common goals and similar views draws the affiliates together. What do you see as Cymophane's goals?
We all have different goals I guess, but the revival of pride and honor must be something ranking high on all lists. Aye, not all are Nordic but the vast majority are Germanic. Some Celt blood and Roman, but our FILOSOFEM is strictly Norse-Germanic. The Celts and Romans are just allies, not one of us, just like I am not one of them because I am Norse-Germanic and not Celt nor Roman. This is racial paganism. The blood-axis.
So one goal is to segregate all the peoples. The Celts shall worship their gods, the Negroes shall worship their gods, the Romans shall worship their gods and so on with all the races and peoples. In America this is quite hard but then again I work for my people and leave USA to the American divisions. Good luck... You need it!
It seems that pure thought such as this could arise only from lands with a deep cultural base... Unlike the United States. I find the U.S. to be extremely weak in this area... Comments and/or comparisons?
Well, in terms of racial paganism the USA is an area of catastrophe. You can hardly find someone who is not in consanguinity with at least two different cultures. Like Norse-Germanic and Roman, Celt and Roman and so on, and in Norway one can hardly find someone who is not pure Norse-Germanic. So obviously the fundaments we work one are quite different.
When it comes to Holy sites and such there are hardly any left in Europe anyway as all of them are either completely desecrated by church-builders, or tourists - like Stonehenge. That is one of the reasons around twenty churches have been burned to the ground the last two years in Norway. They are all built on heathen holy ground. We can reverse it. Since you live in the USA far away from "home" a lot more people study their heritage than in Europe. We are living in the middle of it every day so only the most dedicated bother studying it. But of course when only ten percent of the Norwegian population go to church, when Christian youth is being persecuted because they are Christian, when twenty times as many churches are burned to the ground in Norway than in any other country yearly - on the average, and when "Norwegianess" is something almost worshipped, then of course I have a good start in revivifying the Viking spirit in Norway. It hardly ever died - it just got oppressed for some time.
The deep cultural base is in our blood, so despair not Americans - just take pain in keeping your blood as pure as possible. Misgeneration is the death of all culture. Race treason.
As far as affiliations with groups of similar interests, which can you recommend? Should these be taken seriously?
For your case I think the Asatru Alliance can be highly recommended. I know little of them but from what I can grasp their virtues are congruous with our ideals. Still this goes for Anglo-Saxons/Norse-Germanic only. "Odinism is not for all" as they said themselves. Imagine a Negro or a Jew worshipping Odhinn, it would be just as stupid as if I, the pure Norse-Germanic man, worshipped their "gods," like Jehovah, hah! Ridiculous.
A lot of criticism has arisen from your affiliations with a certain (ex?) Church of Satan member in France. What can you say of these critics, and also of Wiking Herske, these ridiculous threats, etc.?
To attack someone who is not your real enemy, is to untimely attack yourself. If people ever understood syncretic eclecticism they would understand what we are up to. Weak men threaten, real men act!
The common foe is of course Xtianity... The Reaper of all of our ancestors and cultures. It has drawn a veil over societies consciousness with it's plastic ways... Why can not the average person realize this?
Because the people behind Christianity are masters of psychology. I will quote what the Jew Marcus Eli Ravage wrote in "The Century Magazine" January 1928 A.Y.P.S. under the title "A Real Case Against The Jews."
"We have torn down your gods, thrown of the road your race-heritage and given you our god and our traditions instead. Without you knowing what we did to you, you became agents of our race."
The average person is degenerated by the same Judeo-Christianity leaving him incapable of reasoning on a higher level at all. If anybody talks bad about the Jews, our world's prejudiced sub-humanity automatically stamp him as the "Nazi-scum" or a "prejudiced-fuck" and a "racist." The average person does not even realize what the Jews are up to. Simply read the bible (2 Mos 19:5, 5 Mos 6:10-19; 1-3, 16-24;20:10-17) and see for yourselves. What is more racial than to claim to be "Gods chosen people"? So who is the real racists?
As for your journal-publication "Filosofem", it seems to be an educational source more than anything. What are your plans regarding "Filosofem"?
To make a textbook for heathens interested in the true Norse-Germanic traditions and not least the way of thinking. Replacing moral with "hamingja" (honor and luck set by the lineage) and "good" and "evil" with the laws of nature. Survival to the fittest. Make loyalty a virtue. Loyalty to the tribe, the family and the lineage, the Æsir and Vanir and not least to oneself. Reveal esoteric traditions too. In short make it the textbook for heathens of Norse-Germanic blood.
The accusations of your National Socialist beliefs are abundant. What's the truth behind this, Varg?
Prejudice. The Jews made the world believe in the holocaust-lie, and whenever a blond, tall, proud Norseman with sky-blue eyes, like myself, says anything negative about the pestilence called Judeo-Christianity and its roots, the Jews, he gets automatically stamped as a "nazi". I am not necessarily a National Socialist just because I have realized the holocaust story is but a big lie and because I acknowledge the fact that the Jews are the root of the Judeo-Christian thornbush. Attack the bush and you get hurt, attack the roots and the bush dies. This is not racism, it is racial-survivalism. Survival of the unique pure races. So the reason I am scorned as a "nazi" is the many lies of the Jews and the worlds prejudices as a result of their lies. ERWACHE!!!
I suppose that we must speak of your musical project, Burzum, as well... And I'll start with a lyrical question. To me, your lyrics seem dreamlike in ways, yet their meanings are not comprehensible, truly, by everyone. Is this a purposeful effort?
I am adamant to the claim that anyone familiar with the Norse-Germanic heathendom will see and comprehend the messages in Burzum. Still the "kvædi" may appear cryptic and puzzling as they are written with a lot of "kenning" and "heiti". Enigmatically.
As for the upcoming "Filosofem" album, what can you say regarding it's content and direction?
It is Burzum heading to the Ultima Thule (Latin: the uttermost north). Wait and see for yourself. Patience!
As for your association and collaboration with Fenriz and mighty Darkthrone... You contributed quite a few of your own verses to the "Transilvanian Hunger" album and also to the forthcoming "Panzerfaust". Tell the readers a bit of your relationship.
We share many views and I dare say we have common goals. We have been associates since 1991 A.Y.P.S. when we started the first wave of heathendom. Let us not delve into things on a personal level. Who cares about us anyway? It is what we say that matters.
As far as Norse, and for that matter worldwide, musical groups which you recommend; which do you support besides Darkthrone and also Immortal?
I am like a mirror, I return what I see, so I support all those who support me. As simple as that. When it comes to music I can recommend Software, Das Ich, Der Todes King (soundtrack), Goetes Erben, Hliðskjálf (Lidskjalw), Nacht und Nebel, Thule, When's Death in the Blue Lake and The Black Death, Coil's Hellraiser and so on. Darkthrone, Immortal and Burzum should be obvious.
I feel I must ask this question; over the past few years your views have changed from hard-core Satanist to nationalist, neo-paganesque. What is to say that they may not change so drastically in the future once more?
As I answer your fourth question I do clear this point. "Hard-core Satanist"? It is important to note here that this is a term used on us after Euronymous said in "Kerrang!" that all of us were "Devilworshippers".
He was never representative for any of us. What he said was not even representative for himself!
The only thing Satanic about my views was the hedonism. Satan is Hebraic and is translated as "adversary." So Wotan can rightfully be named Satan simply because he is an adversary to the Jewish "god".
If you view my Satanism in this perspective you know how little it had to do with what common folk view as Satanism. The change was no more drastic than if I had painted my house in a different color. What's inside is still the same with the exemption of that hedonistic furniture I smashed and threw out. I used Satanic images and names for the same things I use now. I would never have done it if I knew how much confusion it would create.
As for the storm that has been created in Norway, can you not say the "Black Metal Mafia" was successful in ways? After all many of Jehovah's shelters have burnt to ash.
The material damage inflicted on the Jew-servants or agents as the Jews put it, has been about ten million US dollars just in little Norway but the biggest gain for us, no doubt, is the psychological effect it had on all the youth, and many adults including the National Socialist scene who turned more Odinic then they were to begin with.
The Black Metal Mafia has done nothing, and as you know nothing changes nothing. Some individuals like myself operating in 1992 A.Y.P.S. mainly pushing around a couple of losers, and some independent individuals in their teen were inspired and, apart from the ten churches which burned in 1992 A.Y.P.S., some came about in 1993 A.Y.P.S. and 1994 A.Y.P.S. The last one some weeks ago.
So what proved any effect was the psychological scheme I started with one basic idea: "To show Odhinn to the masses, will light Odhinn in its soul." It worked.
How far will you go, with respect to your limitations at current, to re-instate the ways of the old on our earth?
Here are a few clues; propaganda, agitation and education. This is how far I need to go. To re-instate the ways of the old on our earth is not a goal, all I care for is Scandinavia and Germania. But both Rome and Anglia, America and Eire are worth supporting too. The rest of the world I have absolutely no interest in. Hail Japan though!
Are there any personal views you would like to share?
No, not really. Buy the "Filosofem" magazine. It will warm your pure Norse-Germanic heart.
Is there anything you'd like to say to conclude this interview?
Dey fe, Dey frændi,
Dey sjalfu as samur leyti;
Heldur gljai Odhinns
Skal aldrei deya
I virtur eftirmæli
Perhaps what you have just read will change your impression of this man, whether it be for the better or worse. Whatever your thoughts on the man behind Burzum are, one fact remains: THE MUSIC IS INCREDIBLE! Misanthropy Records (P.O. Box 3541, London E15 3HP, England) have released Burzum's fourth epoch "Hvis Lyset Tar Oss" and are to release the first album ("Burzum") and the classic "Aske" mini-album together as one disc as well as the classic "Det Som Engang Var" very soon. All of these releases come highly recommended so be sure to send $1 or 2 I.R.C.'s to Misanthropy for their most current newsletter/catalog. For more info on Cymophane and "Filosofem" contact Blood Axis/Dungeons of Darkness ([NOTE (Frank Seinstra): address deleted; typing it here would make me supporting their cause]). Glem aldri dodens prins og istigh an tuath on oiche!
Author: Stephen O'Malley (© 1995 "Sounds Of Death" Magazine USA)